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			<h4><a rel="nofollow" id="comment_link_10931381" name="comment_link_10931381" href="//slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=130946&amp;cid=10931381" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(10931381)" >1 comment?</a>


		 	<span id="comment_score_10931381" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 10931381); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>-1</a>, Offtopic)</span></h4>
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			<span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a rel="nofollow" href="//slashdot.org/~MrPerfekt">MrPerfekt</a>  <span class="uid"><a rel="nofollow" href="//slashdot.org/~MrPerfekt">( 414248 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span> 
			<span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_10931381"></span>
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		<div id="comment_body_10931381">Is posting busted or does nobody care about NetBSD?</div>
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	<div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_10931381">

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			<h4><a rel="nofollow" id="comment_link_10931580" name="comment_link_10931580" href="//slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=130946&amp;cid=10931580" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(10931580)" >Re:1 comment?</a>


		 	<span id="comment_score_10931580" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 10931580); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>5</a>, Insightful)</span></h4>
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			<span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a rel="nofollow" href="//slashdot.org/~wooby">wooby</a>  <span class="uid"><a rel="nofollow" href="//slashdot.org/~wooby">( 786765 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span> 
			<span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_10931580">		
		on Saturday November 27, 2004 @01:31PM (<span class="ind"></span><a rel="nofollow" href="//slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=130946&amp;cid=10931580">#10931580</a>)
		<small><a href="//slashdot.org/~wooby/journal/" title="Thursday February 24, 2005 @04:14AM" class="user_journal_display">Journal</a> </small>
</span>
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	<div class="commentBody">
		<div id="comment_body_10931580"><p>Posting works.  It's morning EST; the nerds slumber.  I for one am pumped about 2.0.  I'm a recent convert from Linux and I like NetBSD's installer as well as its bloat and crap-free default software arsenal.</p> <p>With <a href="http://fluxbox.sourceforge.net/" title="sourceforge.net" rel="nofollow">Fluxbox</a> [sourceforge.net], the GNU coreutils, and bash, my P133 makes a reasonable desktop workstation.  Though Linux would work, the low hard-drive footprint of a NetBSD install is what makes the installation trouble-free.  Comparable modern Linux distros seem to me to take time to whittle down to a sub-300MB install.  With NetBSD, the core system with XFree uses only 290.</p></div>
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		 	<span id="comment_score_10932433" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 10932433); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
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			<span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a rel="nofollow" href="//slashdot.org/~peripatetic_bum">peripatetic_bum</a>  <span class="uid"><a rel="nofollow" href="//slashdot.org/~peripatetic_bum">( 211859 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span> 
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		<div id="comment_body_10932433">any other reason why I would want to use netbsd instead of freebsd in an x86 machine?<br> <br>THanks for the tips</div>
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	<div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_10932433">

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			<h4><a rel="nofollow" id="comment_link_10933099" name="comment_link_10933099" href="//slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=130946&amp;cid=10933099" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(10933099)" >Re:1 comment?</a>


		 	<span id="comment_score_10933099" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 10933099); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>, Interesting)</span></h4>
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			<span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span>Anonymous Coward</span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span> 
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		<div id="comment_body_10933099">Better networking in NetBSD.  Basically, it boils down to this:

<ul>
<li>If you need top of the line security, use OpenBSD.</li><span class="substr"> </span><li>If you need a small footprint, use NetBSD.</li><li>If you need to run on an odd architecture, use NetBSD.</li><li>If you need a great BSD operating system, and know that everything you'll use is in NetBSD's package system, use NetBSD.</li><li>If none of the above meet your criteria, use FreeBSD.</li></ul><p>

Also, FreeBSD has better hardware support than the other BSDs as far as number of supported devices.  FreeBSD works wel</p></div>
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			<span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a rel="nofollow" href="//slashdot.org/~Megaweapon">Megaweapon</a>  <span class="uid"><a rel="nofollow" href="//slashdot.org/~Megaweapon">( 25185 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span> 
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		<div id="comment_body_10933394">Just curious (as I've never installed or maintained any *BSD system):  Suppose you have a FreeBSD and lets say a Mandrake workstation setup, complete with XOrg, GNOME, KDE, OpenOffice, etc.  Are we talking a substantial bloat increase with the Mandrake setup just because it's "Linux"?  Is it more libraries, bigger binaries, more software package dependancies...?  Or are you talking a default install of *BSD versus a typical default install of a modern Linux distro?</div>
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		 	<span id="comment_score_10933623" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 10933623); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>, Interesting)</span></h4>
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			<span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span>Anonymous Coward</span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span> 
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		<div id="comment_body_10933623"><i>Mandrake</i> <br> <br>

I would recommend FreeBSD over Mandrake, if you're just looking for a non-Windows OS.  FreeBSD's configuration takes place via direct manipulation of the text files that control the OS.  It's generally not hard to find information on what to twiddle and how, and you end up learning more in the process.  Mandrake (and Redhat, the last time I used it) uses GUI frontends to change these text files, and often uses its own nonstandard text files, so that anything you learn won't carry over to another</div>
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			<span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a rel="nofollow" href="//slashdot.org/~Homology">Homology</a>  <span class="uid"><a rel="nofollow" href="//slashdot.org/~Homology">( 639438 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span> 
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		<div id="comment_body_10933822">One man's bloat is another ones needed features<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)

<p>A commercial Linux distribution tends to install more programs and libraries by default than *BSD. On a *BSD it's more common to actually add the different applications you want from the ports system.</p></div>
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		 	<span id="comment_score_10934700" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 10934700); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>5</a>, Informative)</span></h4>
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			<span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a rel="nofollow" href="//slashdot.org/~setagllib">setagllib</a>  <span class="uid"><a rel="nofollow" href="//slashdot.org/~setagllib">( 753300 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span> 
			<span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_10934700">		
		on Saturday November 27, 2004 @10:32PM (<span class="ind"></span><a rel="nofollow" href="//slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=130946&amp;cid=10934700">#10934700</a>)
		<small> </small>
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		<div id="comment_body_10934700">It's more than just base software choices actually. The BSDs have huge amounts of useful base system software, and depending on your needs you can get an amazing lot done without touching a single out-of-tree package. This includes relatively comfortable software development thanks to nvi, gcc/g++/etc, gdb, BSD make, and so on.<br> <br>
The difference comes in when you look at how bloated the software itself is. All the BSDs have libcs that are tiny (a couple of minutes to compile on even my slowest machines) and do everything a C library should, including full networking and everything. The GNU libc, which you'll find on every Linux system by default (there's a diet libc out there, but it isn't recognized), is a HUGE package that takes a very long time to compile and results in a hefty binary in the end. What does all this bloat go towards? Most say it's all because of its attempt at being completely internationalized, but this is hardly enough to warrant about a 10x size increase.<br> <br>
The same idea applies to all other software that wasn't imported from GNU. If you can do the same things smaller and more efficiently, do it that way. There's no point in having 90% of your source appeal to minor features few people will ever use. There's also a strict adherence to tradition where possible - nvi is kept instead of some stripped-down vim-alike (which would have more convenient features, for instance) because people coming from a BSD system a decade ago won't get culture shock. But all the same modern software is a 'make install' away on any of the BSDs.<br> <br>
The bloat difference in the Linux kernel and BSD kernels isn't even worth discussing. It's just not funny any more. Linux has inflated a LOT in recent times. I remember back when some 2.4 was about 25 megs tar.bz2, now look at it - 2.6.9 weighs in at 35 meg. Is it really 40% more functional? Nowhere near. If anything it should be getting smaller, since they insist they're refining to simpler algorithms that should work faster and take less code.<br> <br>
The NetBSD 2.0RC5 src/sys source compresses (bzip2 -9) to 20M, smaller than Linux 2.4 was. Compared to 2.6, it includes most of the same drivers, the same functionality (plus good security), the ability to run Linux binaries natively (and FreeBSD, SVR4, and some others I forgot), a network stack known to be better than Linux', and oh so much more. This source INCLUDES the ports of NetBSD for which Linux needs EXTERNAL patch sets to run on, meaning that this source tree is even more portable. We all know it's more stable, too. Where is the gargantuan (~175%) size of Linux going? It's all pure bloat. And I challenge even one person to come up with something Linux does that NetBSD can't do, and that takes up 15 meg when bzip2-9'd.</div>
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		<div id="comment_body_10934744">Actually, before some clueless newbie posts saying it's all file systems, take a look at this:<br> <br>
thor linux # pwd<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/usr/src/linux
thor linux # tar -c fs | bzip2 -9 &gt; fs.tar.bz2
thor linux # du -h fs.tar.bz2
2.8M    fs.tar.bz2
<br> <br>
Not to mention NetBSD supports a few file systems Linux doesn't in-tree (LFS, portalfs, nullfs...), and that many (NFSv3, UFS [NetBSD supports more of it anyway], ext2fs, SMBFS,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...) they have in common. Sorry folks, file systems doesn't answer for it.</div>
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		<div id="comment_body_10935188">Exactly, see? Good systems don't need code bloat. OpenBSD is yet another system which does what it does very well and obviously efficiently.<br> <br>
Linux doesn't have security, in 2.6 it doesn't even have stability, and performance seems limited to synthetic cases. Why it gets all the attention is beyond me.<br> <br>
BSD: The cathedral versus the bizarre.</div>
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		<div id="comment_body_10936072">You're right. I should join in and help make Linux a bigger, more 'forward' project.<br> <br>
cd<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/usr/src/linux<br>
dd if=/dev/urandom of=l33t-new-functionality.c bs=1k count=10k<br> <br><nobr> <wbr></nobr>...and then email the diff to Linus who'll happilly include it. Seems that's how the coding is done, anyway.<br> <br>
Face it man, getting bigger doesn't mean getting better. It still suffers from very significant issues in stability, networking capability, security, and root@life knows how dirty it is in every way, even dmesg. That's what you get wh</div>
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			<span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a rel="nofollow" href="//slashdot.org/~setagllib">setagllib</a>  <span class="uid"><a rel="nofollow" href="//slashdot.org/~setagllib">( 753300 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span> 
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		<div id="comment_body_10936094">It does not support more architectures in-tree. You need external patches for a great many of them. A person with a clue would know this. NetBSD supports them all in-tree and with mutual inclusion.<br> <br>
LFS is a journalling file system, which NetBSD has. A person with a clue would know this. If you looked at my self-reply post, I pointed out that the difference the Linux file systems makes is roughly "jack shit".<br> <br>
There are also few drivers Linux has the BSDs don't. These are mostly only the 'evil' new cards ma</div>
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		<div id="comment_body_10936433">I can't really comment on NetBSD (I've only run it on some old SPARC32 boxes being used as dumb X terminals - where it is about 50-100% faster than Linux due to appalling SPARC32 MMU code in the Linux kernel).  FreeBSD, however includes soft updates which solve the same problem as journaling but without the performance hit of journaling and with fewer buzzwords.  FreeBSD also supports background fsck for all except the root partition (which is usually
FreeBSD also supports one particularly useful feature wh</div>
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		<div id="comment_body_10936481">Well log-structuring is said to be the 'more complete journalling' so I didn't figure the distinction would matter as much. Thanks for the extensive description though, that really depicts the differences. Even the online documentation on NetBSD's site didn't go into that much detail.<br> <br>
We need more people like you and less like great grandparent (fellow talking about Linux being the only one with journalling file systems and hence being so bloated, etc).</div>
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